Here comes the change log for beta 0.84:

map5: changed slightly
ai: vehicle combat logic added
ai: entering vehicle distributes seats among the squad now, rather than every squad member racing for the best seat
gameplay: last base capture timer bug fixed
gameplay: reload animation made a bit longer
gameplay: possibility to split the squad to foot and vehicle subsquads (command modifier + jump), separate command targets
weapons: mp5 nerfed
weapons: weapons with blast projectiles are now shot to ground at target rather than over the ground like regular bullets
weapons: a bug in bullet projectile voxel mesh loading fixed
rewards: destroying enemy vehicles increases xp
rewards: kill combo achievements gives xp rewards, to be expanded in later versions to other achievements
notifications: player driving over another player with a vehicle now properly announced over network
launch: parameter processing made more stable

Why did the MP5SD have a 0.7 kill chance?

We got owned by the AI trying to come up with a perfectly executed stealth scene in a base that was swarming with enemies for the coop stealth video, for several days, until we just cranked up everything about the MP5, kill probability and accuracy. From there, it was evident that the old MP5 was just a piece of crap for doing any serious stealth.

In the end, having the starting accuracy high would've been the solution that was really needed, not much more. Making hits in non-alerted environment has a kill probability of 100% regardless of what the kill probability has been defined in the weapon specification, and MP5SD being a suppressed weapon retains the non-alertness of the area unless its used to spray all over the place.

The old MP5 before 0.83 wasn't that good for stealth as you couldn't count on it making the hit on the first shot / burst even quite close to the enemy, causing them to become alert and thus losing the non-alert kill probability boost very often.

I think you should consider adding ammo limitation, it'd make balaning much more easy, as you could have more situationally powerful weapons without making them completely overpowered. I think it would also create interesting situations where you have to decide between different killing methods due to low ammo.

Limited ammo would also encourage more accurate burst-shooting rather than just spamming everything *nänni pohjassa*, I'd like that Honestly I see no negatives in ammo limit at all.

Perhaps walking over a same weapon type would grant you ammo?

And about the update.. fuck yes.

This would be a way bigger project than seem you realize, and would change the gameplay a lot.
Where would you get more ammo from?
How much would you be able to carry?
Would ammo be separated into magazines or just an ammo pool?
These and loads of other questions that springs up from an addition like this would have to be answered, and that is only the planning phase of it. Adding more variables doesn't make balancing easier. It makes it harder.

If this ever gets implemented in any way, let's at least keep it optional.

Oh and fuck yea update!

there will be a hardcore mode at some point, and stuff such as limited ammo has been considered in this mode.
I think it could make the gameplay interesting indeed. I am not a fan of ammo waste, that's why we made the first step by extending the reloading time by 50%. Hopefully that will make people not reloading their weapon after 2 shots

Also, if limited ammo were added, would you instantly pick up magazines from the ground by walking over them? That seems to be the way to do it but then with the number of carcasses lying about, would it actually add anything?

ComJak

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ComJak's house... stay out of it

I do acknowledge this, but I think the change would be into a really positive direction. I wouldn't hammer the idea down immediatly, be it in a hardcore mode or not.

And all those questions are really easy to answer:

1. Small amounts from fallen weapons and crates, complete restock from a gun crate. You won't have to stop because of no ammo unless you're badly wasting it, and that is the point.

2. Well this is the factor that actually does make balancing easier, because more powerful weapons can have less ammo and be more useful for a different meaning than another gun. E.g. MP5D would be really good in stealthy burst operations, but not shine in an open battlefield because you'd run frequently out of ammo (since you have to spam at long range). G36C wouldn't be as good in the said stealth operations because you'll alert the whole base on you.

3. There's no big difference to be honest, I myself like ammo pool more because I can keep on 2-shotting and reloading. It's instinctive somehow.

4. I'm sure you had trouble coming up with these three already, and the ammo amounts for specific weapons aren't that hard to think of. If you can find more fallacies.. I'll be glad to bring them down. Also more variables != harder balancing.. It depends on the variables. While adding ammo limitation does require extra effort put into the balancing, it doesn't make it harder. It opens up new gameplay possibilities.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of limited ammo, but depending on how it is implemented it could really turn the gameplay upside down.
And those questions are not so simple when you have to answer them more specifically.
1. What is a "small amount" 1 mag, 2? For one weapon type or more? Or do perhaps all the weapons use the same ammo? Gun crates would also become way more important if they could restock you completely. Currently they don't even give you grenades. The bases with gun crates in would become way more important.
2. This I can agree with.
3. Not a huge difference if ammo is plentiful but then there's really not really any point to having limited ammo at all. Do you throw away your half empty magazine (and the bullets) when you reload or do the bullets magically appear in the bullet pool? Or do you save the half empty magazine, and after reloading some times it would come up again?

It may be easy to answer these questions in broad terms, but when you have to make real numbers and functions out of it you have to be much more specific.
If it becomes implemented as a simple bullet pool with one ammo type for all weapons, it doesn't really change the game much. It would make bases rich with crates a bit more valuable, and maybe prevent a bit of full auto spamming.
If it is implemented with separate magazines and individual ammo types, and perhaps even some sort of logistics into it (dropping ammo for others, carrying ammo in vehicles, even vehicle ammo) it would make it way more involved.

Again don't take it wrong. I like the idea and it's really cool to hear there's eventually coming a hardcore mode. I'm just saying I'd way more like it to be implemented as a well thought out feature than a just balancing measure. And with the hardcore mode I think it sounds great. More possibilities!