No problem ^^ But I don't got my knowledge from shooters or stuff. I'm just interested in ballistics, warfare, firearms and military history.

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None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with me...

So why do you want these weapons exactly? Do you want them to be in the base game?

I'd argue against adding these. The reason being is that they're not going to add anything, or just add bad things.

The latter case is what has happened with games like Battlefield 3. The game is too unbalanced because every gun has to be balanced against every other gun and the developer hasn't done so. (This is inexcusable in AAA titles, considering they should have the resources to do so).
A lot of the guns you listed are very similar anyway; we don't need any more assault rifles. We already have two that cover the assault rifle role quite well. Unless you have a different, specific role in mind for each weapon, putting them in is a bad idea.

The former case is that the guns are statistically the same and therefore pointless. At that point you might as well just do some model replacement yourself.

I believe there is still a niche for a burst fire or semi auto rifle that is more accurate at range and works as a DMR or as a more accurate assault rifle (M14, Mk12, L85). Also believe (less so) that there is a niche for a more powerful spray and pray unsilenced smg for CQB (HKUMP, P90, MP7). Finally, depending on the choice made in the first selection, perhaps an antimaterial rifle that could help take out jeeps or even penetrate small cover for decreased lethality (XM500, AS50, M82, Steyr HS .50) with balancing improved by forcing the prone position, making it a bolt action, single shot, and making it relatively rare.

Those are the things i wish to see.

ComJak

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ComJak's house... stay out of it

I want to have the weapons in the game because I mean the game should have some more modern up to date weapons. And when there's such a great game like RWR it should offer many different weapons to be perfect. So you don't need to look for a different game after time when you are in the mood for a bigger weapon variety. Also I got additional "roles" for the weapons because the most of them don't got the same or similiar handling. The HK g3 for example got the handling of an full auto sniper rifle with a very strong recoil. The PP90/bizon or the P90 are close combat smgs with a exceptionally high mag capacity. And the F2000 is a high range assault rifle that is accurate even at a very high distance but the bullets have a quick energy loss so it's a bit weaker but very fast to reload.

But I would suggest a compromise that should be much easier and faster to introduce, too...while keeping the game balance. But for that there should be two more weapon slots, actually a machine gun that you can shoot while standing but with strong recoil for more handy machine guns like the mg36 or you just could put it in the slot of the pkm. And a sub machine gun with a bigger mag.
Well, so you could select in the main menu what weapon slot looks like which weapon model. And every weapon slot got it's own exchange skins. For example instead of the ak you can select the scar, the famas or the g3 skin. And instead of the g36 you could select cx4 storm, the f2000, the m4/m16 or the steyr aug skin. For the mp5 you could select the silenced mp7 skin for example. Or you just could select unsilenced smgs for the mp5 with a changed sound. All what is need to be done for that is too add a menu for the weapon selection, some new reload animations and some sounds. So every player could have his own configuration. In online play you got to see whether the skins should cross or not.




Good argument and good ideas Expept the antimaterial rifle I mean the game should stay focused on ballistic projectile based firearms...

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None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with me...

I had thought about the skin slots before but i don't remember if i brought it up. Yes that would be a great idea that could implement many weapons without actually needing to balance them. Also a thought but possibly impossible to implement, if anyone has played America's Army, then you understand:

from your point of view, you are always the same team. So there is just Team 1 and Team 2.

A Team 1 player will see himself and his allies as green soldiers (or whatever) and Team 2 players as grey soldiers.
The weapons that Team 1 uses will be the western weapons such as the g36, m16, blah blah blah while the Team 2 soldiers look like theyre using AK's and things like that.
While the stats are different for an AK and a G36, you can go pick up an AK and if will have different specs.

I realize this explanation is very complicated and not very well written so:

Your team is ALWAYS green while the opposing team is ALWAYS grey. Your weapons are ALWAYS the western weapons and the enemy's weapons are ALWAYS eastern weapons. You can pick up eastern weapons but stealing them from the enemy which will let you gain the "powers" of the new weapon.

Argh.. this is too complex to explain without showing or talking and it probably won't gain support anyways. Just another idea out there that could be used.




*Edit: Above, what do you mean by "ballistic projectile based firearms" ? Aren't AMR's also ballistic projectile based firearms? They shoot bullets too haha
**Edit 2: Also, i forgot to mention that the unsilenced smg's should be way less accurate at range to compensate for power.

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ComJak's house... stay out of it

Oh I definetly agree with burst fire ARs.In my underslung weapon thread I suggested burst fire weapons as an accompaniment to the underslung GLs.


Why? I don't really see why it should. It's got iconic weapons at the moment.
In any case, some of the weapons you suggested are obsolete: the G36, already in the game, was a replacement for the G3. As for the AK, swap the 4 with the 7 and you've got the AK-74, the modern version.
I wouldn't mind seeing the G3 in the game as one of the 2 guns that would fulfill Comjak's suggestion. (The other would, I hope, be the AN-94. That would keep with the AK and HK theme)


Why?
Lots of other games offer a wide weapon variety. You can go play one of those. How does a large variety = perfection?
I play ARMA 2. That game has a wide variety indeed and I like it for that. The game isn't exactly balanced, but it's a simulator, so I don't expect it to be.
Players don't deal with the handling, this isn't an FPS game.


What you've said about these weapons is true. However, there is already an SMG (I assume another one coming) and two fully automatic ARs in the game in the game and . Why do we need additional things that fill the same role?
What you are describing isn't different roles, it's differences in how the weapons handle IRL. This game is not IRL.

RWR, from what I can see, follows the philosophy that less is more. Part of the appeal of the game (at least to me) is its elegant simplicity.
Adding more weapons that fill the same role just makes the game harder to balance, because some weapons are better than others. Real life isn't balanced. Therefore if you try to put in lots of weapons that fill the same role, the game has to choose between realism and balance. RWR doesn't need lots of weapons to be perfect. It just needs balanced weapons.

The only way I could see a wide weapon variety being balanced is by something like my Tactical Mode suggestion, where better weapons cost more points and are therefore a compromise to take. However, that would make Tactical mode even harder to implement because determining the points cost of each weapon would be a nightmare and in the end make the mode less competitive, defeating the purpose of that mode.

Let's look at one of your suggestions: the P90
As you said, it's a high capacity, CQC SMG. When compared to the MP7/9, it is superior in pretty much every way. If you put it in the game with realistic characteristics, it will definitely not be balanced. If you try to make it balanced, it won't really be a P90 anymore, it will just look like one without playing like one. That's poor design.
To give Battlefield 3 as an example:
The F2000. At release, it was the best assault rifle in the game, because it was fairly close to realism. It had a high rate of fire, was fairly accurate (though not as accurate as it should have been) and had good handling characteristics. This made it pretty much the best gun in the game. Everyone used it. If this was a simulator, that's what I'd expect. Of course the FN F2000 would be better than any M4/M16-based weapon. It is a better, more modern design.
However, DICE, the developers of BF3, saw that the most popular assault rifle was F2000 by far, so they nerfed it horribly. It became a close quarters bullet hose with the worst accuracy of any assault rifle in the game. At that point. the gun is an F2000 in name and looks only. The same is true of many other weapons in that game, the AEK-971 suffers the same fate as the F2000.


This is an indie game, not a AAA title. The resources & manpower for balancing a large number of weapons are just not there. As I said in my previous post, even AAA games like BF3 are grossly unbalanced. How can you expect an indie title to have more balance than a AAA game while trying to achieve the same scope?
Trying to develop a scope outside your resources is poor design. I don't want to play a poorly designed game, there are enough of them out there.

Additionally, you're forgetting one last thing:
Eventually, players will discover which weapon is the best and almost everyone will use it.
Just look again, at Modern FPS games: Almost everyone uses whatever gun is the best with the latest patch. When I played last it was the M16A3. Everyone used it, except those people which used something like the G3A3 due to it's radical difference from other assault rifles in that game.

This is why I think that 2 weapons per weapon class is all that is necessary. It's all people end up using.


That all said, I do think your idea of custom weapon skins is nice. It lets players customize their experience without affecting gameplay. If you do want it to affect gameplay, mod the game. I wouldn't mind seeing it as a mod, but not part of the base game.


I see what you're saying there: You want faction specific weapons to be restricted to the faction.
While it's nice in theory and I would like to see it done well, it is hard to balance.
I've played games that have done it; not a single one was balanced.

It is actually perfectly balanced because the physical bullets coming at you from the opposing team are the exact same guns as the ones you are holding. You just can't tell because they're just bullets. When you kill a grey for instance, you can go pick up his AK. However, the AK will actually have different stats than the one you were being shot with because it's now in your hands and truly an AK.

As I said, most likely too complex to incorporate but if anyone has played America's Army, they will know what I am talking about.

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ComJak's house... stay out of it

I see the problem. I think that I know what you mean. But I think too that you didn't understood correctly what I mean Every weapon " slot" got limited exchange options. Not every weapon can look like every weapon and you couldn't swap skins ^^ The ak for example couldn't be a g36 but a g3. And the g36 couldn't look like the ak. Every weapon slot just should have a few exchange skins that fits to the stats and doesn't corrupt other slots. And in online games you pick up the weapons of the other player/the enemy players troops. When you got an ak and he has exhanged the ak with the famas (the famas isn't available for any other weapon status slot) and you killed one of his soldiers then you really pick up the famas but with the same stats like your ak. And when a buddy joins via lan only him has his weapon skins.

Well, imagine the weapon skin menu (exchange skin options). The first weapons are the original weapons and you'd klick on it to see the available exchange skins. The stats would stay the same, just the sound and the reload animation would change:

AK47--->G3/Scar/Famas
G36--->M4/M16/FN F2000/CX4 Storm/Steyr AUG
MP5--->silenced mp7/silenced p90/UMP
PKM--->MG36

There should be different ways to realize it. Perhaps all weapons in the game stay original but the weapons that come out of crates destroyed by the player has the modified skins (should be the best I think). Or perhaps only the weapon with that the player starts has the modified skin. Maybe even the troops of the player use the selected weapons. But it should be avoided in any case that the enemy lost a famas for example but you pick up an ak. You really should be able to pick up the configured weapon. And don't just take over the own selection.

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None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with me...

Hmm, I think I see what you're saying now IronStrIkEr, but that's already easily possible with mods. As far as I know the game doesn't use checksums when playing online, so it's easy to modify weapon models to your liking.
For example, if you download this little thing here that I just whipped up and extract it to your running-with-rifles folder, it will replace the G36 with the FN F2000. It'll still be called the G36 ingame, but it will look like the FN F2000 in both the game and on the HUD.
It's not possible to change the name yet, as the displayed name is also, as far as I know, what the game uses to identify the weapon.

It is possible to change the name in the weapon_specifications in [RWR directory folder/media/models].Open with notepad, find G36 and change the name to FN F2000.
Also a possibility to create insane weapons (High Velocity Bullet Shotgun with 100 projectiles)