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Insano-Man
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 5:48 am 
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Location: MURDER ST., SLAUGHTER CITY
Is it too much to ask or hope for to raise the weapon limit in the future? I would hope it wouldn't complicate networking too much, even as much as the weapon limit itself is the entire breadth of my technical knowledge on Running With Rifles' netcode.

I'd love to be able to implement the seeker rifle (which I'd, unfortunately, already started work on before I made this discovery) and other weapons, but that would force me to crush some toes and pull or remove weapons from custom player loadouts that were established long before the necromorphs were even a single model.

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I'M COOKIN' WITH GAS! I've got a handful of vertebrae and a headful of mad! Yeah! That's your spinal cord, baby! Dig it! Who's the man? I'm the man! I'm a bad man! How bad? Real bad! I'm a 12.0 on the 10.0 scale of badness!
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The Soldier
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:15 pm 
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Posts: 635
How the hell do you have 128 different weapons? Are you still using the vanilla weapons in your mod? There's no reason in God' green Earth that you could have 128 weapons in a single mod.
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Insano-Man
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:36 pm 
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Location: MURDER ST., SLAUGHTER CITY
I have a long history of "vanilla plus" mods in nearly every game I play. It's my nature; I adapt to the game and then adapt it to myself. Running With Rifles is of the majority where I didn't feel it was necessary to drastically change the core gameplay, so I left most of it intact - hence the mod's name, "Leg Up".

To answer the question, yes. I've even gone the extra length of restricting rare weapons to specific factions and developing new rare weapons to fill the gaps left by the change.

The list so far:
Spoiler:
VANILLA ADDITIONS
1. M1911 Pistol, Greenbelts
2. P99 Pistol, Greycollars
3. P226 Pistol, Brownpants

RARE WEAPON ADDITIONS
4. M14 Marksman Rifle, Greenbelts
5. M4A1 Assault Rifle, Greenbelts

6. AUG Assault Rifle, Greycollars
7. FNC Assault Rifle, Greycollars
8. Galil MAR Assault Rifle, Greycollars
9. UMP45 Submachine Gun, Greycollars
10. Bor Sniper Rifle, Greycollars/Brownpants

11. RPK Machine Gun, Brownpants
12. Kord Machine Gun, Brownpants
13. KS-23 Explosive Shotgun, Brownpants
14. Literally three Saiga-12s hooked up to a minigun motor, Brownpants

UNITOLOGISTS ARMORY
15. Pulse Rifle
16. Plasma Cutter
17. Contact Beam

WASTELANDER SET (Brownpants Character)
Made for my own character class, most weapons spread to new bot classes
18. R91 Assault Rifle, None
19. Monolith Gauss Rifle, Brownpants
20. AS Val Assault Rifle, Brownpants
21. SPAS-12L Shotgun, Greycollars
22. M202 Flash Missile Launcher, Greenbelts
23. HK21 Machine Gun, Greycollars
24. Vz.61 Submachine Gun, Brownpants
25. P99M Pistol (Distinguished from Greycollars version by +magazine size, -kill chance, and +movement speed)
25. N99 Silenced Pistol, None

STROGG SET (Incomplete) (Greycollars Character)
Made for my own character class, weapons not spread around
26. Lacerator
27. Railgun
28. Hyperblaster
29. Obliterator
30. Suppressed Nailgun (Quake 4-Era)
31. Lightning Pistol

MISCELLANEOUS PLAYER WEAPONS
Made for my group's character classes, most weapons spread to new bot classes
32. M249 Machine Gun, Myself/Greenbelts
33. Customized G36C Assault Rifle, Dougley/Greycollars
34. ISAL Infantry DEW, Zero/None
35. MTs-255 Shotgun, Zero/Brownpants
36. MP5/10 Submachine Gun, Prows/Greenbelts/Greycollars
37. R93 Sniper Rifle, Prows/Greycollars
38. Customized AK74 Assault Rifle, Prows/Brownpants
39. Mosin-Nagant Sniper Rifle, Prows/Brownpants
40. Doctor's Case, Prows/All (Infinite medkit with +movement and +cost compared to the normal one)

"FAKE" WEAPONS
41. Pack Birthing, Necromorph Pregnants
42. Frontal Armor, Necromorph Stalkers
43. Vomit Spray, Necromorph Pukers
44. "Gorekit", Necromorph Infectors (Infinite and invisible medkit)
45. "Gore Dropper", Necromorph Feeders/Pregnants (Deploys population-increasing gore piles)
46. Slasher Token, Necromorph Slashers (Plays death scream when dropped)
47. Leaper Token, Necromorph Leapers (See above)
48. Twitcher Token, Necromorph Twitchers
49. Hunter Token, Necromorph Regenerators

CUT DUE TO WEAPON LIMIT
- Glock 86 Pistol
- Anti-Personnel Mine Deployment
- Anti-Tank Mine Deployment
- Supply Crate Deployment (Deploys population-increasing crates, unique crate per faction)
- Birthing weapons encompassing the following character classes:
-- Leapers, feeders, twitchers, slashers, spitters, infectors, cultists (?!?), pukers


In my current, sleep-deprived state, I'm not sure if I'm capable of fully grasping how large that list is. What's more is that I have a planning document detailing more that I intended to add - the Strogg list, in particular, still lacks a blaster pistol, nail shotgun, and an original nail pistol. The unitologist list is even more lacking at only two weapons the bots will ever use and only one they'll use regularly, even as much as I never actually intended for them to be played.

Whatever the case, I do want to continue development of even more weapons. Unfortunately, I'm dead in the water with the cap at 128 - and it's going to get even more cramped if anymore vanilla weapons are introduced by future patches.

_________________
I'M COOKIN' WITH GAS! I've got a handful of vertebrae and a headful of mad! Yeah! That's your spinal cord, baby! Dig it! Who's the man? I'm the man! I'm a bad man! How bad? Real bad! I'm a 12.0 on the 10.0 scale of badness!
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Ramsoos
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:12 pm 
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Location: One of two Melbournes.
Christ, man. Is this just a "death battle" mod, pitting different factions from different games against each other? Strogg, Necromorph, Unitiologists, and Wasterlanders? Or are you working on different mods from a single overlay?
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The Soldier
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:45 am 
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Posts: 635
Good bloody hell, that's a lot of weapons and factions. Split that up into separate mods for the moment.

Geez that's a lot of weapons and factions. Did I say that already?
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pasik
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:32 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:59 am
Posts: 2856
Insano-Man wrote:
Whatever the case, I do want to continue development of even more weapons. Unfortunately, I'm dead in the water with the cap at 128 - and it's going to get even more cramped if anymore vanilla weapons are introduced by future patches.


I think there would be two choices for how to increase that size.

One would be that the number would be doubled to 256, there's anyway one byte currently used for communicating about weapon id's in the netcode. The problem is that there are probably hundreds of places in the code that use -1 to denote an invalid weapon id or no-weapon. That means it's all over the +100k lines of source code where weapon ids may be checked for invalidity against -1 or for validity with >= 0, so it's very difficult to find all those places to make sure all of them would be changed to another solution, e.g. by using id 255 as the invalid one, leaving 0-254 for actual weapons.

The other choice would be to increase weapon id communication in the netcode to use e.g. 4 bytes, mostly there are facilities in place already for 1 and 4 byte elements. 4 bytes would allow you to have 2 billion weapons, even with -1 used as it is. The downside is that weapon ids are used a lot in the netcode, e.g. every bullet shot carries the id of the weapon so that other players in online see the correct results, all backpack and stash contents use these ids, etc. So we'd be looking at 4x more data each time such id is used. It's hard to estimate what it would do to total output traffic a server would be dealing with, but plenty more anyway.

So there, we either have a nice solution with lots of work and risks which would double the number without causing any impact in net traffic, and there's a solution that's simple to make but causes much more traffic. The unfortunate part here is that neither is needed by vanilla.
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Insano-Man
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:56 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:06 pm
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Location: MURDER ST., SLAUGHTER CITY
The Soldier wrote:
Geez that's a lot of weapons and factions. Did I say that already?
There are actually only four factions involved; the base game's original three and the necromorphs, which are predominantly made up of gunless meat monsters. The Strogg are a "sub-faction" of the Greycollars in that they only really exist when I feel like playing grey - they're a separate character class with unique models and weapons, but are otherwise on the same side. The wastelanders are the same, only for the Brownpants.

There are also several mini-loadouts that are mostly vanilla, but still encompass a large range of custom character models. For example, my personal Greenbelts loadout is nothing more than an M249 and a vanilla SPAS-12 in place of the original M240 and Mossberg and primarily held together with an HECU marine model. A friend of mine uses SWAT officers inspired by the Payday series - including a recently-developed original bulldozer - across all factions with only a G36C to stand out in his arsenal.

Being more awake, I can definitely see that's a much larger list than it feels like. That doesn't mean I'm at all ashamed of it and I still wish I could make it bigger.

pasik wrote:
So there, we either have a nice solution with lots of work and risks which would double the number without causing any impact in net traffic, and there's a solution that's simple to make but causes much more traffic. The unfortunate part here is that neither is needed by vanilla.
Unfortunate, indeed. As much as it would be great to have, I'm well aware that I'm likely the only person asking for it. Whatever happens, thank you for your time and explanation on the matter - developer interaction like this is rare and it ought to be commended whenever it happens.

_________________
I'M COOKIN' WITH GAS! I've got a handful of vertebrae and a headful of mad! Yeah! That's your spinal cord, baby! Dig it! Who's the man? I'm the man! I'm a bad man! How bad? Real bad! I'm a 12.0 on the 10.0 scale of badness!
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