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 Post subject: MGs/Prone clumsy to use
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:02 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:03 pm
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Hey, I wanted to check what the intent for Machineguns such as the M240 is. Currently if you don't happen to be next to some chest-high cover, you have to go prone to fire. Unfortunately, this is really annoying, especially because you currently can't move or rotate at all while prone and there's no HUD element to indicate your field of fire.

I've only recently played Running with Rifles for the first time, so I'm not sure if the M240/Prone was added recently. Will prone movement/rotation be added in the future, or is it currently a design choice to omit that?

Additionally, it would feel a lot less fiddly if you'd let us fire the MG while standing/crouched, even if you give an accuracy penalty to reinforce that you want people to be prone/supporting the bipod on something to fire it. Again, is this something planned for future update, or a design choice?

I feel like there are a lot of ways to balance machineguns that aren't quite as annoying for the machinegunner as forcing them to prone to fire - for example, making the reloads a lot longer.

Really liking the promise of Running with Rifles, excited to see future updates for it. Thanks!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:20 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:58 am
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Location: Western Europe
Hmmm well your idea isn't that bad, being able to shoot not only while prone. The aiming should be drastically reduced then, else this weapon wouldn't have a disadvantage. The reload time should be longer indeed since you can fire like 5x longer than a MP5 till you have to reload. Afaik the reload time of all weaps are the same in the game, right ?
Being able to change your angle while proned with the MG isn't a good idea though and unrealistic as well since you can't move a MG with a bipod so fast in real life either ;)


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:43 pm 
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MissDjax wrote:
Being able to change your angle while proned with the MG isn't a good idea though and unrealistic as well since you can't move a MG with a bipod so fast in real life either ;)


It doesn't have to be fast - anything is better than having to stand up every time you want to change your tiny field of fire, especially when they are tiny little movements. The aiming is a bit finicky due to the viewpoint too, so having to stand up to change your point of aim just exacerbates that.

As for realism - I don't really think this game is shooting for hardcore realism as it's top feature, but even if it was, being rooted in place every time you go prone and having to stand up to change where you're looking is certainly not realistic, so it's a moot point either way.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:01 pm 
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Having to go prone to fire with M240 is that by design and has been like that since last summer. The weapon has such an enormous power compared to the assault rifles that it has been made significantly less agile to use for the counterbalance.

Less agility also means that when fighting against an M240, you can more easily evade the fire sideways as the M240 field of fire is limited, and you have more time to act when flanking an M240 which is directing its fire elsewhere.

You don't specifically have to stand up to change the direction of fire with M240, getting to the crouch stance is enough. Truth to be told, it doesn't make any difference in speed though, as there's no transition penalty between standing up and crouching ;)

Prone movement and rotation will be added in the future, and when carrying an M240 the speed of movement on prone will likely be set lower than with other weapons.

Reloading time is currently the same, but it should be a lot greater for M240.

Anyway, your proposal can be made to fit in some ways I think, without losing the clear difference in gameplay style M240 implies over the other weapons. For one, the accuracy could be made ridiculously low when shooting standing up and the shooting pose should actually be shooting from hip. Second, while standing still with M240, the pose should be such that the weapon is simply carried and as such not immediately ready to be fired with, indicating a short delay to start the fire, as the handling of the weapon should be clumsy due to the weight. Third, I would keep the shooting stationary, even if standing up.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:36 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:03 pm
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That prone movement/rotation is coming in the future sounds good to me - the main issue I have with how the M240 works right now is that its very fiddly to have to fully stand up and reset the firing position when you just want to make a tiny adjustment to your field of fire.

I agree with the way you've laid things out in that last paragraph - sounds good.

Also, it'd be great if there were options between hold-to-prone/crouch as it is currently and toggle prone-crouch as seen in a lot of games. Especially where the M240 makes such prominent use of prone, having to hold the button down, sometimes for long periods is inconvenient in my opinion - it'd be awesome to be able to hit Z and switch to prone, then hit C to go to crouch or hit Z again to go back to standing.

Thanks for your reply by the way! Looking forward to future updates.


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