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 Post subject: Being a Captain.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:48 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:12 pm
Posts: 24
Location: I'm in green base, sniping green people...
Hello, i recently started playing RWR, Great game, but i wondered
I am a commander, im leading a team of 7 guys, the only authority i got is to make em follow me.

I was thinking about using Right click for commands, like right click an enemy to command your squad to attack that person, or right click next to a wall to make them take cover there, or have a combination (?+RMB) to have a squadmate throw a grenade there, or make the squad move to a certain location, or to protect a certain faction member, So much possibilites using an unused button which should be used...

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 Post subject: Re: Being a Captain.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:08 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:44 am
Posts: 58
You can assign the right mouse button to any function you like using the controls config.

Also, your AI squadmates do most of the things you suggested automatically, as they should. Therefore such commands would be redundant.


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 Post subject: Re: Being a Captain.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:50 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:59 am
Posts: 2856
I'm all for keeping things simple and transparent, and allowing AI to act on things on it's own, but maybe there's actually something here.

The squad tends to scatter a bit around when you get in to a battle - in 0.351 the squad members were a bit too active in independently finding something to shoot at, in 0.4 they try to follow the leader more closely but still handle their personal fighting duties. Also, if they don't see an enemy to shoot at while fighting, but the leader is still shooting, they move towards the leader's shooting target in attempt to get visual on the target and join the fight. If I remember correctly, you can try this behavior by just shooting at ground within some distance when there's no fighting going on, the squad should move in to where you shot. While this enables some fight concentration and works well for its purpose during fights, it's not that flexible in general.

Deriving from what Zomgman suggested, a kind of generic "move to target"-command could be added on the right click to move the squad around.

So if you'd click RMB somewhere on the field, your soldier would shout something and the squad would attempt to move there. Obviously they'd fight with an enemy in that direction automatically should there be an enemy. It's up to them how they execute it, so if there's something more important to handle, e.g. another enemy is right next to them as a more serious threat, they'd handle that first. Also, it would be up to them whether they use grenades or not. They already tend to use grenades against M240 or several closely positioned soldiers, it should be pretty ok.

When the squad gets to the given target, they would stop there and take cover for a small while, after which they would continue on their normal stuff, finding more things to shoot at or staying still or regrouping back to leader.

You could also use this to call the group back to you manually, if you think they've gone too far in the heat of the battle.

Not only could you use this to make the squad attack a specific different target from what you are fighting against, but you could also use it to concentrate fire to your target. Ideally this thing would enable you to make the squad attack the enemy from one direction, while you yourself move in from the side.

The best thing is that it's just one button more and all it does is hint the squad to move to a certain position, so it would be pretty easy to prototype. The game might be too hectic for this feature to have much added value, but I can try it at some point how it feels like!


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 Post subject: Re: Being a Captain.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:22 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:44 am
Posts: 58
Looking at it like that seems to be worth pondering upon, and maybe even prototype.

While I prefer designing new mechanics with a more wholesome whys, hows and whens, I can think of one specific issue I think the game currently has.

In urban areas, it's often pretty difficult to "open" a corner, kill the enemy behind it and move on. The enemies' ability to hit with single snap shot is pretty good, especially at close distances (as the distance always is when houses are cluttered = urban area). I'd even argue that the enemies can shoot two snap shots to almost opposite directions (to north, to south) faster than the player can, due to the mouse control, so a slight speed/accuracy penalty to the AI characters might be in order when they're shooting to a direction more than 60-100 degrees away from where ever they were facing just before the shot.

Whether this issue really exists or not, it'd be useful and plausible to have the ability to have your squad close in on the enemy from one side of the building while personally closing in from the other direction (and preferably timing it so that you get to shoot the enemy in the back after he's engaged your squad in the other direction). A general "go there" command would probably make this possible, if tuned right.


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 Post subject: Re: Being a Captain.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:56 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:59 am
Posts: 2856
Jason9mm wrote:
Looking at it like that seems to be worth pondering upon, and maybe even prototype.

While I prefer designing new mechanics with a more wholesome whys, hows and whens, I can think of one specific issue I think the game currently has.

In urban areas, it's often pretty difficult to "open" a corner, kill the enemy behind it and move on. The enemies' ability to hit with single snap shot is pretty good, especially at close distances (as the distance always is when houses are cluttered = urban area). I'd even argue that the enemies can shoot two snap shots to almost opposite directions (to north, to south) faster than the player can, due to the mouse control, so a slight speed/accuracy penalty to the AI characters might be in order when they're shooting to a direction more than 60-100 degrees away from where ever they were facing just before the shot.

Whether this issue really exists or not, it'd be useful and plausible to have the ability to have your squad close in on the enemy from one side of the building while personally closing in from the other direction (and preferably timing it so that you get to shoot the enemy in the back after he's engaged your squad in the other direction). A general "go there" command would probably make this possible, if tuned right.


Absolutely true what you said about the AI being too accurate at shooting while turning around, it's pretty annoying, going to fix it soon.

The new map that I'm currently working on will eventually have access to rooftops. I can imagine the move command being useful also so that you climb to the roof yourself with M240 and get to a good position to shoot down to the street, while you order your squad to take on the enemy on the ground.


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 Post subject: Re: Being a Captain.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:30 pm
Posts: 17
Location: France
Yep, would be really cool to be able to command each soldier like in brothers in arms for exemple.
Like in your group you have different squad (suppresive fire/ assault / mounted gun).


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 Post subject: Re: Being a Captain.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:22 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:59 am
Posts: 2856
I would start out experimenting with it just by commanding the whole squad. It might be enough for most cases.

After all, a lot of guys in the squad will get killed in the next battle, so trying to position each of the members individually might be a bit over-trying to solve the battles.

What do you think - what would be the best way to input individual / sub-squad orders and separate them from commanding the whole squad? You'd probably need some way to divide the squad into smaller pieces or perhaps be able to click onto each soldier on the field, and I've got the feeling it might start to become a burden at that point.


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 Post subject: Re: Being a Captain.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:43 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:30 pm
Posts: 17
Location: France
Well i think you could add a wheel of command to the game and you unlock those commands as you uprank.

exemple : Image


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 Post subject: Re: Being a Captain.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:09 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:59 pm
Posts: 64
I think simple would be the best.

- Click on random area: Squad moves there and takes a cover for few seconds
- Click on enemy: Squad focuses its fire on him
- Click on object: Squad uses it (In the future for an example a jeep, they hop in)

RMB and nothing else could do everything, and this said it sounds quite perfect.


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 Post subject: Re: Being a Captain.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:15 am 
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Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:28 pm
Posts: 15
I support the idea of "squad modes".

1. Stealth. Just the commander may initiate a shooting. They walk/prone if see an enemy close. If an enemy is close and heading towards other direction, they i'd sneak and use a knife to get the job done.
2. Normal. They may run. Commander initiate shooting.
3. Aggressive. Run, "fire at will!!!"

Commands:

1. No grenades!
2. Dont shoot!
3. Save ammo! (if ever implemented finite ammo).
4. Superssive fire (there)!

And formations:

1. Lined up. (one or two columns, nice for parades!)
2.Star, front line, scattered, etc.


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