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 Post subject: Re: REPORTING A SCAMMER
PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:44 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2015 1:34 am
Posts: 212
Street Veteran wrote:
If I was server owner, I would make more stricht rules. Like no teamlooting and no stealing.
Is there even any public rules for official servers?

I agree that RefrigedRaider was moron because he let his munies be stolen.
But also I would ban this stealer as I hate scammers.

-ask to see trade items/moneys first
-keep some distance with the one you are trading with, so you have some reaction time if he tries something once the items are on the gound
-only trade with reliable players

Is flashing forbidden?


That loss was miniscule, i was fortunate enough to have the ability to make a recovery. at least street veteran could understand the situation.


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 Post subject: Re: REPORTING A SCAMMER
PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:03 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:19 am
Posts: 635
I think all of us understood the situation crystal-clear, despite the pitiless responses (and perhaps a bit too harsh :P) from harr. You were scammed and want justice upon those who unrightfully took your stuff. The thing is, that's something we'd all agree with regardless of how it came to be. However, Street_Veteran here makes actual suggestions on how to prevent it in the future.


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 Post subject: Re: REPORTING A SCAMMER
PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:37 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:03 am
Posts: 6
RefrigerRaider wrote:
DeltaV11.2 wrote:
-snip quote-


You do not want to know what happened before, I will tell you of a very unfortunate incident that happened almost a month ago, I lost highly valuable weapons and objects from an enemy mortar strike, the game proved unfair to me for some reason as the items disappeared way before the estimated decay of 90 seconds for rares. feeling disoriented, i stopped playing this game for nearly a month from this. i only resumed playing this game a bit later after the new update with the new weapons were added. this drove the prices for the older rares down. until then, it was unheard for me of for me to see kriss and barrets sold for under a thousand rp as those originally were around 2-4 thousand. took me a while to realize it, had trouble forcing myself to adjust, meant i lost alot of potential gains.with the newer weapons going in, i had never sold a weapon over 20 thousand before. but for the more common rare weapons, i sell them at 2x-3x value. have been always been. its that the status of being the rarest weapons is what drives the prices so high, now with the update, micro and barrett arent the rarest anymore so the price for them has stabilized.

You seem to be mistaken as well and still relatively misunderstood. that was my way of trying to force him was to expose him more. He was fortunate to make some damning statements that i was able to record down from camera in transcripts to gather more evidence. the fact that i did that was to see if he actually have a lahti, which he did not. it is more immoral to find lie about something you do not have in the first place and run off with the funds then do. my goal of forcing him to comply was to see if he actually have one and to expose him more, since i did not expect him to give one out anyway.

I now come to reason to suspect BLACKARROW is MADCAT

Ill be fortunate enough to tell you the full story, over a month ago, a person by the name of MADCAT was a very high profile serial teamkiller who somehow could cheat tk bans and teamkill people without punishment. it gotten so serious that jack was personally brought in to confront MADCAT. by your definition of "threat", jack threatened MADCAT with a IP ban if he stopped doing what he was doing. but MADCAT, arrogant and defiant, openly and boldy taunted, harassed and verbally assaulted him and his company and the game itself. jack reasoned with him, despite all this, MADCAT was still defiant. jack then went back and promply reset MADCAT's account progress, it was highly controversial to have player personally verbally assault a dev like that, im shocked and disgusted at that type of conduct. jack was a very lenient and as punishment only reset his account progress. MADCAT was finally able to behave. that is a rare success story how the worst of the worst turns relatively the best amongst the worst. except in the case of MUNCHMUNCHMUCH, longest serial teamkill despite countless warnings from dev, finally banned.

seeing such similar demeanor and defiance is what really convince me people really wont comply, but on the good side, it exposes them more. the more BLACKARROW talked from my "threat", the more evidence i gathered. my tactic worked. seeing this type of conduct just makes me think of MADCAT again, and i suspect its him from the beginning as he actually really hates me even on after his punishment.

Telling me(as I already actually knew) that you quit the game for a month due to loss of funds does not strengthen your point, it only further suggests that you are emotionally overinvested in RP and therefore likely to engage in drama and coercion in order to try and gain it.

Overselling a weapon by 2-3 times is scamming. This is the case because there exist no costs to buying and selling and holding weapons ingame, so the market rate is very nearly absolute, meaning that a fair deal has almost no profit for the reseller. The only way to sell weapons at 2-3 times their typical price is to exploit those who do not know any better.

I perfectly understand what you are saying your purpose was, I just think that what you are saying is a lie. You admit to having a great deal of attachement to ingame RP. You regularly brag about how much you have. You told him you would drop this if he gave you the Lahti. The reasonable conclusion is not that you are trying to incite him to get him banned, but that you are trying to coerce him in order to get RP/Items.

Blackarrow == Madcat is frankly ludicrous on the face of it. Yes, I suppose it might be possible that blackarrow is secretly another player who has returned after his absence to extract his terrible vengeance of 30k RP upon you. Clearly the person who was able to tk without punishment would revenge himself by scamming you out of virtual money.

My definition of threat is the normal person's definition of the word. Dev's actions are completely different because they are not aimed at personal gain, but for community policing reasons. If you as an ordinary citizen tell someone that you'll send the police evidence that they stole a watch unless they give you 2000 dollars, you have commited the crime of extortion. If the police tell you that you should stop standing around on the sidewalk or they'll ticket you, they are giving fair warning before they take their legally permitted action in hopes of resolving the situation in a more amicable way.


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 Post subject: Re: REPORTING A SCAMMER
PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:43 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2015 1:34 am
Posts: 212
DeltaV11.2 wrote:
RefrigerRaider wrote:
DeltaV11.2 wrote:
-snip quote-


You do not want to know what happened before, I will tell you of a very unfortunate incident that happened almost a month ago, I lost highly valuable weapons and objects from an enemy mortar strike, the game proved unfair to me for some reason as the items disappeared way before the estimated decay of 90 seconds for rares. feeling disoriented, i stopped playing this game for nearly a month from this. i only resumed playing this game a bit later after the new update with the new weapons were added. this drove the prices for the older rares down. until then, it was unheard for me of for me to see kriss and barrets sold for under a thousand rp as those originally were around 2-4 thousand. took me a while to realize it, had trouble forcing myself to adjust, meant i lost alot of potential gains.with the newer weapons going in, i had never sold a weapon over 20 thousand before. but for the more common rare weapons, i sell them at 2x-3x value. have been always been. its that the status of being the rarest weapons is what drives the prices so high, now with the update, micro and barrett arent the rarest anymore so the price for them has stabilized.

You seem to be mistaken as well and still relatively misunderstood. that was my way of trying to force him was to expose him more. He was fortunate to make some damning statements that i was able to record down from camera in transcripts to gather more evidence. the fact that i did that was to see if he actually have a lahti, which he did not. it is more immoral to find lie about something you do not have in the first place and run off with the funds then do. my goal of forcing him to comply was to see if he actually have one and to expose him more, since i did not expect him to give one out anyway.

I now come to reason to suspect BLACKARROW is MADCAT

Ill be fortunate enough to tell you the full story, over a month ago, a person by the name of MADCAT was a very high profile serial teamkiller who somehow could cheat tk bans and teamkill people without punishment. it gotten so serious that jack was personally brought in to confront MADCAT. by your definition of "threat", jack threatened MADCAT with a IP ban if he stopped doing what he was doing. but MADCAT, arrogant and defiant, openly and boldy taunted, harassed and verbally assaulted him and his company and the game itself. jack reasoned with him, despite all this, MADCAT was still defiant. jack then went back and promply reset MADCAT's account progress, it was highly controversial to have player personally verbally assault a dev like that, im shocked and disgusted at that type of conduct. jack was a very lenient and as punishment only reset his account progress. MADCAT was finally able to behave. that is a rare success story how the worst of the worst turns relatively the best amongst the worst. except in the case of MUNCHMUNCHMUCH, longest serial teamkill despite countless warnings from dev, finally banned.

seeing such similar demeanor and defiance is what really convince me people really wont comply, but on the good side, it exposes them more. the more BLACKARROW talked from my "threat", the more evidence i gathered. my tactic worked. seeing this type of conduct just makes me think of MADCAT again, and i suspect its him from the beginning as he actually really hates me even on after his punishment.

Telling me(as I already actually knew) that you quit the game for a month due to loss of funds does not strengthen your point, it only further suggests that you are emotionally overinvested in RP and therefore likely to engage in drama and coercion in order to try and gain it.

Overselling a weapon by 2-3 times is scamming. This is the case because there exist no costs to buying and selling and holding weapons ingame, so the market rate is very nearly absolute, meaning that a fair deal has almost no profit for the reseller. The only way to sell weapons at 2-3 times their typical price is to exploit those who do not know any better.

I perfectly understand what you are saying your purpose was, I just think that what you are saying is a lie. You admit to having a great deal of attachement to ingame RP. You regularly brag about how much you have. You told him you would drop this if he gave you the Lahti. The reasonable conclusion is not that you are trying to incite him to get him banned, but that you are trying to coerce him in order to get RP/Items.

Blackarrow == Madcat is frankly ludicrous on the face of it. Yes, I suppose it might be possible that blackarrow is secretly another player who has returned after his absence to extract his terrible vengeance of 30k RP upon you. Clearly the person who was able to tk without punishment would revenge himself by scamming you out of virtual money.

My definition of threat is the normal person's definition of the word. Dev's actions are completely different because they are not aimed at personal gain, but for community policing reasons. If you as an ordinary citizen tell someone that you'll send the police evidence that they stole a watch unless they give you 2000 dollars, you have commited the crime of extortion. If the police tell you that you should stop standing around on the sidewalk or they'll ticket you, they are giving fair warning before they take their legally permitted action in hopes of resolving the situation in a more amicable way.


the definition of what you consider a scam is disputable, as my policy and ways does fall in some disputed area, however, what i do is perfectly legitimate as the people i generaly i sell to are from experienced regulars who are willing to buy at a high price, for example, the vss is at 200, i do sell it 3x their value of 600, but at such a price, people who could afford it are the more old vets. if you noticed, the multiplayer community is relatively small, and only a small percentage are really wealthy enough to buy expensive rares regularly.

I also devote a huge amount of game time to go and scour for rare weapons, I can confidently conclude that i am probably the only experienced player with a biggest disparity between game score and game time. its because i spent more game time scouring maps for rare weapons then do playing, the amount of labor and effort and time taken to keep my stocks in supply to help feed my ability to be able to sell rares regularly. taking that into consideration,it is legitimate that from extra labor my time has to be higher. If you noticed that almost every time im online always sell rares, but how could i be able to sell rares so often? but after going inactive and coming back, im not as active in doing those kinds of stuff anymore. It was too tedious and time consuming.I came back to enjoy the game more while still being able to do alot of trading. And I find my stockpiles rapidly draining because of me no longer wanting to spend time to restock, so i went the more easier and convenient way instead to simply rebuying cheaper from other players who are willing to get rp more readily and hopefully selling at a higher price more readily to equalize profit margin as before, This is what i have been doing recently.

I do boast about the amount of rp i have made because of the genuine feeling of effort and devotion taken for me to get that far. being able to declare that amount i have simply represents a hard working success story. to have someone else unrightfully taking a huge amount of funds without even spending even close to the level of effort and time for me just added more disrespect and insult. how could I with so much game time devoted to earning that much to have some taken away by a thief who never spent near close to the effort i did to get my way up to being successful? its like rubbing salt into an already open wound. I hope you understand this feeling. If you looked at the leaderboard, there are higher ranked players with scores several times higher than mine who spent the equivalent game time as me. this shows the amount of game time i dedicated to earning those RP.

I suppose you knew that i originally offered a higher value to blackarrow, he declined initially and I couldve went higher before he finally actually said "that 30k is enough". there was some negotiation going on. and in the end, he never had the weapon in the first place.


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 Post subject: Re: REPORTING A SCAMMER
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:28 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:12 am
Posts: 46
Street Veteran wrote:
If I was server owner, I would make more stricht rules. Like no teamlooting and no stealing.
Is there even any public rules for official servers?

I agree that RefrigedRaider was moron because he let his munies be stolen.
But also I would ban this stealer as I hate scammers.

-ask to see trade items/moneys first
-keep some distance with the one you are trading with, so you have some reaction time if he tries something once the items are on the gound
-only trade with reliable players

Is flashing forbidden?


It would be the best to hardcode that players can't pick drops from other players. Period. If looting remains possible but rules are in place that state that players can't loot other players, it would generate more and more threads like this, with more and more frustrated players who's items got looted upon death. It would be a never ending drama for devs and players.


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 Post subject: Re: REPORTING A SCAMMER
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:54 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:19 am
Posts: 635
Devs are making it so if a player is killed by another player, then the player who was killed drops none of their stuff and can respawn with it where ever they please. That should solve 99% of all the issues.


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 Post subject: Re: REPORTING A SCAMMER
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 6:13 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2015 1:34 am
Posts: 212
The Soldier wrote:
Devs are making it so if a player is killed by another player, then the player who was killed drops none of their stuff and can respawn with it where ever they please. That should solve 99% of all the issues.

when did they start working on that? please do that ASAP


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 Post subject: Re: REPORTING A SCAMMER
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:37 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:58 am
Posts: 1662
Location: Western Europe
RefrigerRaider wrote:
The Soldier wrote:
Devs are making it so if a player is killed by another player, then the player who was killed drops none of their stuff and can respawn with it where ever they please. That should solve 99% of all the issues.

when did they start working on that? please do that ASAP


We didn't start with it yet but will have a look at it once the Workshop update is there, in roughly 1 month.


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 Post subject: Re: REPORTING A SCAMMER
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:45 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:13 am
Posts: 32
The Soldier wrote:
Devs are making it so if a player is killed by another player, then the player who was killed drops none of their stuff and can respawn with it where ever they please. That should solve 99% of all the issues.


"Dude, we're surrounded, we're screwed! I'm gonna lose my minigun!"
"Calm down, everything is under control."
*takes out an RPG
"Nobody loses a minigun on my watch."


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 Post subject: Re: REPORTING A SCAMMER
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 12:15 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:19 am
Posts: 635
Zed wrote:

"Dude, we're surrounded, we're screwed! I'm gonna lose my minigun!"
"Calm down, everything is under control."
*takes out an RPG
"Nobody loses a minigun on my watch."

You know, that's exactly the thing that I thought when I was told that. Let's just say it's a "pleasant" side effect of the fix. ;)


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