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So, when you die, you lose your purchased weapons, now?
http://www.runningwithrifles.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1483		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Lusketrollet [ Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:  So, when you die, you lose your purchased weapons, now?
That's an awful idea.

Is there any way to retain the weapons I've purchased after I die? Like, drop them off at a depot, or something? Or is there some option in the "Settings"-menu that I have overlooked? I've read through the patch notes, but couldn't find any info on the matter. :?
Author:  pasik [ Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So, when you die, you lose your purchased weapons, now?
Lusketrollet wrote:
That's an awful idea.

Is there any way to retain the weapons I've purchased after I die? Like, drop them off at a depot, or something? Or is there some option in the "Settings"-menu that I have overlooked? I've read through the patch notes, but couldn't find any info on the matter. :?


It has been like that before too. The weapon is dropped when you die, it stays there on the ground for you to go pick up again.

If you had a low price stock weapon also available for your faction, you respawn with it costing you its RP value.

The high price items are not spawned with, as it will drain your RP.

You always have the option to spawn at an armory, if you need to obtain specific high value stuff.

There are also stashes spread out in the maps where you can store stuff if you think you're carrying something too valuable .. for carrying around. The stashes are linked to each other and carry stuff over map changes if you're playing campaign.
Author:  Lusketrollet [ Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So, when you die, you lose your purchased weapons, now?
Quote:
There are also stashes spread out in the maps where you can store stuff, if you think you're carrying something too valuable


If I store an item there, it will still be dropped when I die, right?

It's just such an utter infuriating, joyless hassle to have to run back-and forth between the battle and a depot at the other end of the damn map just to be graciously allowed to use the weapon I prefer.
Author:  pasik [ Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So, when you die, you lose your purchased weapons, now?
Lusketrollet wrote:
Quote:
There are also stashes spread out in the maps where you can store stuff, if you think you're carrying something too valuable


If I store an item there, it will still be dropped when I die, right?

Amm no, if you store the item there, you don't have it with you when you die, it's in the stash then.

Quote:
It's just such an utter infuriating, joyless hassle to have to run back-and forth between the battle and a depot at the other end of the damn map just to be graciously allowed to use the weapon I prefer.

Use vests and stay alive.

* EDIT:
The game tries to promote two main ways of gameplay: the primary way, which is running like meatshields with the usual weapon arsenal the faction provides and dying a lot, bots do this too, and the secondary way, which is by using an overpowered weapon but having to care more about surviving.

I've so far had no problems with the system, other than that I'd like to spawn with a cover item sometimes when I've successfully used my previous one, but the game protects me from RP drainage. Once I learned not to hit space bar all the time when dead, but click on the closest armory on the map, I came to terms with it. For the case where I was and what I was trying to do, it seemed justified.

One thing I'd like to see more commonly placed is stashes, anyway, I could gather some supplies there beforehand and access them anywhere where there is a stash. Or how about a mobile stash or mobile armory? You could call it as a drop near you, and it would stay there e.g. for a given time, something fairly long. It could even have a mobile spawn point similar to armored trucks.
Author:  Lusketrollet [ Sat Dec 21, 2013 8:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So, when you die, you lose your purchased weapons, now?
This is what I've understood from your post - please correct me if I've gotten something wrong:

When you die whilst carrying a weapon that has to be purchased in order to gain access to it, you respawn with that weapon, but with its cost deducted from your budget - in essence, you will have "bought" it all over, again. If you cannot afford it, you will spawn with a different, presumably cheaper weapon.

Have I got the general idea?

If so, I personally have no problem with it - it occurs to me as fair and sensible. Many other games wherein the players "purchase" improved equipment with points earned from playing follows the same principle.

However.

You state - unless I've misread - that the player will never be allowed to respawn with certain weapons. (You've apparently deemed them "too good", or something.) This makes no sense to me. After all, it's not like you're actually restricting me access to these weapons in any real way; all you accomplish is forcing me to spend some meaningless extra minutes running back-and-forth between the nearest Depot and the battle for no apparent reason. You're causing the player extra frustration and discomfort, without it actually impacting the gameplay in any meaningful way.

In short; I think the concept of being allowed to respawn with any weapon as long as you pay for it should expand to encompass all purchasable weapons.
Author:  pasik [ Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So, when you die, you lose your purchased weapons, now?
Lusketrollet wrote:
This is what I've understood from your post - please correct me if I've gotten something wrong:

When you die whilst carrying a weapon that has to be purchased in order to gain access to it, you respawn with that weapon, but with its cost deducted from your budget - in essence, you will have "bought" it all over, again. If you cannot afford it, you will spawn with a different, presumably cheaper weapon.

Have I got the general idea?

If so, I personally have no problem with it - it occurs to me as fair and sensible. Many other games wherein the players "purchase" improved equipment with points earned from playing follows the same principle.

Yea, you buy "another" weapon of the same type, because you also dropped one actual weapon instance. You aren't allowed to duplicate items without a cost.

Quote:
However.

You state - unless I've misread - that the player will never be allowed to respawn with certain weapons. (You've apparently deemed them "too good", or something.) This makes no sense to me. After all, it's not like you're actually restricting me access to these weapons in any real way; all you accomplish is forcing me to spend some meaningless extra minutes running back-and-forth between the nearest Depot and the battle for no apparent reason. You're causing the player extra frustration and discomfort, without it actually impacting the gameplay in any meaningful way.

In short; I think the concept of being allowed to respawn with any weapon as long as you pay for it should expand to encompass all purchasable weapons.

Primarily, this doesn't happen in order to piss off players, but to avoid them from draining their RP with this. In 0.92 we had e.g. cover deploy items respawnable, and you could carry 3 of those. When you respawned, you lost 60 RP to buy 3 cover deploy items, while you also probably dropped 3 at the place where you died. If you went to the previous spot where you died, you now had 6 cover items which you couldn't carry all effectively + you lost 60 RP for nothing; you could've just bought nothing and get your old ones back which you just dropped.

60 RP was seen too much per life. People would lose 600 RP in an instance by dying 10 times, or if they didn't have that kind of RP, they'd drain whatever they had and then would not be able to purchase the items anyway. Similar thing would happen with your 40RP reward rifle if you keep dying with it! The solution to overcome this for 0.93 was to prevent user from doing this mistake, hence, high value items are not respawned with but if you really want to respawn with one of these, you basically can - you spawn at the armory and buy it. It might be farther away than your closest spawn point, but armories can't exist everywhere, and the other solutions (a) create armory where you are by calling it b) add tickboxes or something in the inventory that allows you to spawn with high price items despite you are doing something you perhaps shouldn't if you repeatedly have to) were considered too much work to fit 0.93.

On the more constructive side, I've got some new alternatives how to help the situation, I'll summarize the earlier ones in too:
1) don't allow spawning with any high value items, happens to avoid automatic RP drain with high rate of respawning, like with most players (in 0.93)
2) allow spawning with any high value item, seems to cause plenty unintended RP drain and item duplication (in 0.92)
3) allow player to summon mobile armory/stash truck or building to be either driven to the spot or dropped via radio call
4) introduce slider UI for RP indicating what is the maximum RP to allocate for respawning, if possible
5) just reduce price of reward weapons and allow respawning with them (gives the player access to near-rare grade weapons at minimum cost, that's quite a reward, even better than finding rare weapons)
6) have the reward send fixed instances of the item to player's stash, in addition to 1), and make respawning attempt using similar items stored in stash automatically, if current items aren't to be respawned with otherwise; a minor variation could be that the reward is added to player's backpack or near play on ground, allowing player to donate them to armory to gain RP or deliver them to stash
EDIT: 7) allow player to access armory while dead; while highly convenient, it also has the least appeal to me.. maybe I'm purist but I want to do things inside the game world, by accessing a location that allows me to interact with something

If the current way is a huge pain, you can of course mod it. There's a field such as can_respawn_with="0" in famasg1.weapon and other high price items. Rare weapons have in_stock="0" which basically includes can_respawn_with="0" but also makes them not available at armory.

EDIT: Starting to like 6 quite a bit. It would also allow me to collect any stock enemy weapons I like and take them to stash and be able to respawn with one without having to kill another enemy with such weapon. It would also come with capacity naturally, so I'd run out of them eventually.
Author:  Lusketrollet [ Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So, when you die, you lose your purchased weapons, now?
Quote:
EDIT: Starting to like 6 quite a bit. It would also allow me to collect any stock enemy weapons I like and take them to stash and be able to respawn with one without having to kill another enemy with such weapon. It would also come with capacity naturally, so I'd run out of them eventually.


Something like that, yes.
Author:  Papa [ Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So, when you die, you lose your purchased weapons, now?
So, to keep your expensive weapon you put it away in a stash, and you'll spawn with it upon death?
Author:  pasik [ Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So, when you die, you lose your purchased weapons, now?
Papa wrote:
So, to keep your expensive weapon you put it away in a stash, and you'll spawn with it upon death?

No.
Author:  Papa [ Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So, when you die, you lose your purchased weapons, now?
I feel stupid.
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