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Thoughts on the Inventory system?
Perfect as it is 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Needs improvement 76%  76%  [ 13 ]
Absolutely dislike it 6%  6%  [ 1 ]
Prefer having no inventory 18%  18%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 17
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:04 pm 
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firearrows wrote:
pasik wrote:
The whole layout in the inventory UI will very likely go through some changes, as like you mentioned dragging such a long way horizontally to equip something is tedious, and while actually equipping stuff from ground/backpack could be made more slower in the game to penalize equipment juggling, the UI shouldn't be the reason why it's so slow to achieve.

The other point is very true too, the radius of sniffing the items nearby the soldier is a bit too small. Also, items that are near the character should never vanish from the world as an item cleanup measure. I've countless times already started to drag an item in the UI only to see the icon and the item disappear for being out in the world for too long. Not to mention all the other usability issues I've got in mind.. :)


Instead of adding a weight system, only allow a player a weapon in his hands and a weapon in his backpack. Works better and with weight there'd still be people running around with three weapons or more :/


Even 2 is too much in my opinion: carrying around a specialized weapon like sniper with a balanced weapon like assault rifle would be too much, unless the soldier would be e.g. only walking.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:00 am 
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What if, not for use with weapons, but perhaps something like "intl" retrieved from an enemy spawnpoint during full battle (such as when a stealth flank doesn't work, your squad all dies and you are behind enemy lines alone). With the obligation or returning the intel to friendly spawnpoint, or comms truck for a map based perk or something. Maybe temporary enemy troop movements on map, or easier stealth and concealment for a period of time if you troops attack in that zone, maybe just being able to zoom in on map for a bit and see more detailed topography. The effect/perk itself could be discussed. But something to give a little extra appeal to it making all the why into an enemy spawnpoint. I don't know, just a very rough idea at the moment.

Anyway, don't scrap the new inventory to quickly. There's got to be something good for it, other than just overloading yourself with way to many guns.
Maybe space for med-kits allowing you to revive a real-player on the field. Or the supplies for like a temporary sandbag bunker or wall (to allow gradual ground capture over those long stall-mate battlefronts).

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:12 am 
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I think that inventory system shouldn’t allow carrying extra weapons because you can create OP combinations.
Sniper+AR: now you can fight at any range.

And how about this loadout: any weapon+2 laws+4 grenades+10 grenades in backpack. Now you are walking artillery.

Inventory management is more suitable for survival games where you don’t die from a random single bullet. Unless you keep everything you have in your backpack after you die.

The only idea I have is using backpack for equipment which gives you extra abilities but no extra firepower.

As for equipment there you can have C4, mines, minesweeper (obviously), radio jamming device (anti mortar).

Engineer tools for different purposes: building entrenchments (sandbags, barbed wire, vehicle obstacles).

Some specops equipment like night vision goggles, camouflage suit. Even enemy outfit (Hitman style) but crosshair would reveal you disguise.

There shouldn’t be any equipment which has influence on weapon performance because there is no way to balance weapons in such conditions. Example is CoD4 everyone use stopping power (more damage) over juggernaut (less damage from any sources) these perks cancel out each other. However stopping power make some weapons the best and juggernaut is called a noob perk.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:23 am 
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Opt_0 wrote:
What if, not for use with weapons, but perhaps something like "intl" retrieved from an enemy spawnpoint during full battle (such as when a stealth flank doesn't work, your squad all dies and you are behind enemy lines alone). With the obligation or returning the intel to friendly spawnpoint, or comms truck for a map based perk or something. Maybe temporary enemy troop movements on map, or easier stealth and concealment for a period of time if you troops attack in that zone, maybe just being able to zoom in on map for a bit and see more detailed topography. The effect/perk itself could be discussed. But something to give a little extra appeal to it making all the why into an enemy spawnpoint. I don't know, just a very rough idea at the moment.

Anyway, don't scrap the new inventory to quickly. There's got to be something good for it, other than just overloading yourself with way to many guns.
Maybe space for med-kits allowing you to revive a real-player on the field. Or the supplies for like a temporary sandbag bunker or wall (to allow gradual ground capture over those long stall-mate battlefronts).


Yeah, these generic "useless" items are already in the plans which work as logical triggers for objective tracking (from where the reward / perk could be something very varied depending on the item) and as boosted valued merchandise items when you deliver them to the armory. This I think is the main reason for the backpack to exist, simply to carry something for a short while. It's possible the item is bound as a reward for both factions, so it's possible to create a situation where both parties may need to retrieve the unique item somewhere while trying to stop the other from doing the same.

So the backpack as such is not being scrapped anywhere, just needs finer control what it is allowed to carry, or, what are the tradeoffs. The current backpack capacity which is 5 units, after which you're not able to run, is of course too much, it was put there mostly to help test things and allow making things generic and configurable. Grenades "weigh" less in the backpack capacity, so those you can cram in even more currently.

At a point, there was a lower priority idea that rifles themselves could be merchandise and allowing you to carry a few of them would be thus helpful, but as long as the weapons are balanced and usable by anyone (as opposed to having classes where only certain types of weapons are useful per class and the rest of them are junk to sell), the idea won't work as you can do the arsenal mode.

Rare weapons will exist, but it seems they are going to stay fairly rare so that the current weapon set is the main set that people fight with. Invasion mode utilizes rank for unlocking weapons, but it doesn't mean that a later unlocked weapon would be better than an earlier one in all cases, just different. These solutions fight against allowing carrying weapons for combat purposes, but a rare weapon still needs to be possible to be carried to the stash.

It irks me that it could be solved by allowing carrying a currently unusable rare weapon (as you don't have enough rank) in the backpack, but deny it once you can use it. It would solve "carrying weapons for temporary cargo" + "not carrying weapons for combat", but it doesn't make sense the slightest bit.

Classes irk me as a solution as well: I don't want to make it so that you can/have to choose your class somewhere, be it when you join a server the first time or when you visit some place, but it's undeniable it too would solve "carrying weapons your class can't use for cargo" + "not carrying varied weapons for combat".


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:43 am 
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Tadler wrote:
I think that inventory system shouldn’t allow carrying extra weapons because you can create OP combinations.
Sniper+AR: now you can fight at any range.

And how about this loadout: any weapon+2 laws+4 grenades+10 grenades in backpack. Now you are walking artillery.

Exactly. But, if weapon carrying is denied completely, how can you carry a rare weapon you've found but which you can't use yet as your XP doesn't permit it? The more advanced version of the same problem is that if you're already carrying a rare weapon that you can use and then you find another rare weapon that you can't yet use: how do you keep your current weapon, i.e. not swap it with the unusable rare weapon and throw it away, and carry the unusable rare weapon to the stash?

Tadler wrote:
Inventory management is more suitable for survival games where you don’t die from a random single bullet. Unless you keep everything you have in your backpack after you die.

Invasion mode is evolving into that direction, surviving bullets will be possible once the vests/wounding/medikits/reviving -combination of logic, soldier states and items are implemented which shouldn't take too long now. Medikits, now that I mentioned it, has been planned as a secondary weapon level item, it's something you equip and shoot to apply. Vest is a wearable, it becomes effective when it's set amongst the active equipped gear, it will most likely severely immobilize the soldier / hinder agility rather than let him die immediately when getting hit lethally, allowing the soldier to not lose his stuff when getting hit but still lose his fighting ability until assisted by a medic.

Tadler wrote:
The only idea I have is using backpack for equipment which gives you extra abilities but no extra firepower.

As for equipment there you can have C4, mines, minesweeper (obviously), radio jamming device (anti mortar).

Engineer tools for different purposes: building entrenchments (sandbags, barbed wire, vehicle obstacles).

Some specops equipment like night vision goggles, camouflage suit. Even enemy outfit (Hitman style) but crosshair would reveal you disguise.

C4, mines and sandbag resource have come across the plans as secondary weapon items similar to medikit in operation.

Portable radio jammer sounds like a new idea, I like that. It could be one of the wearable items that when set to a wearable item slot in the equipped gear it would activate.

Tadler wrote:
There shouldn’t be any equipment which has influence on weapon performance because there is no way to balance weapons in such conditions. Example is CoD4 everyone use stopping power (more damage) over juggernaut (less damage from any sources) these perks cancel out each other. However stopping power make some weapons the best and juggernaut is called a noob perk.

I agree, this most likely won't happen. Weapons are what they are.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:07 am 
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I dont know if this has been addressed or not, Im far too tired to read over all this but...Am I the only one who felt like the curser moved slower while in inventory? It felt sluggish, maby thats just me.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:57 am 
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I’m glad that you like radio jammer, but making it a wearable item which you equip makes it really hard for enemy to counter.

It should be placeable object which makes a beeping or any other noise so you can search and destroy it.

As for vest/wounding/medikits/revive system. Could you make a stun effect with adjustable time? So that when you get shot after you pass the chance to kill there is a chance to stun and depending on damage it sets time for stun effect. I think armor vest should make stun effect from hit by bullet more probable the instant kill. While on ground you can add bleed out timer with red cross for friendly soldiers.

Is armor vest going to protect from explosions or it would be a different item? Are you going to make something to protect from flash grenades?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:18 am 
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Tadler wrote:
I’m glad that you like radio jammer, but making it a wearable item which you equip makes it really hard for enemy to counter.

It should be placeable object which makes a beeping or any other noise so you can search and destroy it.

As for vest/wounding/medikits/revive system. Could you make a stun effect with adjustable time? So that when you get shot after you pass the chance to kill there is a chance to stun and depending on damage it sets time for stun effect. I think armor vest should make stun effect from hit by bullet more probable the instant kill. While on ground you can add bleed out timer with red cross for friendly soldiers.

Is armor vest going to protect from explosions or it would be a different item? Are you going to make something to protect from flash grenades?


A placeable item should work too, sharing some parts of logic with C4 and mine -like items.

Time controlled stunned state would be possible to work in the character logic, it also should fit the gameplay just fine. It would make it more fair in that when you shoot someone at close distance and he doesn't happen to die, he'd at least get stunned, so you would have the chance to finish him off rather than him being more lucky and being able to shoot directly back at you while standing. Far range hits could still continue to work like they do, or have a more subtle stun animation played without involving falling down, just to stop the motion.

The wounded state could be extended with possibility to drag yourself around slowly when on the ground, and it would be great if other soldiers could drag the wounded to safety.

The vest shouldn't protect from explosions completely, but maybe it would at the farther region of the blast radius. Riot shields can be used to block flashbangs.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:37 pm 
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Being honest I think the inventory system is something this game doesn't really need, and could make the game lose the fun and frantic gameplay that makes me (and others) love it so much. By over-complicating the gameplay you could be in danger of diluting the fun and creating "breaks" in the flow of the game, and that to me defeats the whole idea. Don't get me wrong, I like how you have done it, but I really feel the game doesn't need it to progress.

RwR is just that, you run about like mad, you find a better gun then you pick it up and throw away your old one. Keep it simple, keep it flowing and you will keep it fun. On Sunday I started the game, picked up an M16 and never changed weapon for two hours. I looked at the inventory system, figured out how to change things then set it back to the default gun-launcher-grenade setting and never used it again. As for the back-pack, well I have an idea about that ;)

Where I do see the inventory system being useful is at spawn and character creation - Your backpack can hold one of each item slot; so one main weapon, one secondary weapon, one grenade (and possibly one support item). You will not be able to swap when in combat, but when you die you will have the chance to reconfigure your soldier from on hand items when dead and "stored" backpack items. So, say you are killed by a sniper, if you had one in your backpack you could respawn armed with it to try to take him out. Once you did, you then had a choice - let yourself be killed and respawn with original weapon, stay as a sniper until you die, or go looking for a new gun, knowing that next time you die you will lose the sniper rifle.

This keeps the actual gamplay as fast as ever (implement press F to switch on hand, hold F to switch "store"), doesn't give rise to possible imbalance issues (switching between AR and Sniper for instance on the fly) and adds choice ramifications to the game - do I use my store slot for a rare weapon I can't use yet? Do I drop my sniper rifle now their sniper is dead and grab an Assault Rifle and hope I pick one up later? Do I go in with Flack Jacket or C4 Jacket?

Anyway, just my thoughts, I love how RwR is fast paced and almost instinctive at times, and I worry that that may be lost if things become too over-complicated.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:06 pm 
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{SAS}DocStone wrote:
Being honest I think the inventory system is something this game doesn't really need, and could make the game lose the fun and frantic gameplay that makes me (and others) love it so much. By over-complicating the gameplay you could be in danger of diluting the fun and creating "breaks" in the flow of the game, and that to me defeats the whole idea. Don't get me wrong, I like how you have done it, but I really feel the game doesn't need it to progress.

The idea of the inventory is not to change the gameplay that is already there, but bring more possibilities you may or may not use. I believe you can still play 0.85 the usual way, hit pickup for quick swap, equip + drop.

The main driver behind the inventory and Invasion is to fight against the criticism we've received for the game being shallow, having severe lack of depth. The inventory and Invasion has been targeted to players who prefer watching their unit progress through a campaign, unlocking new weapons and capabilities, looting fancy items, executing objectives, earning rewards and doing some trading. We believe a sense of progression is the key here to fight the lack of depth. Single match games, PvP with bots is a different world that doesn't need any of this, and thus it's not going to be forced there.


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